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 Sacrifices still being made in the temple?

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MMkgc

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PostSubject: Sacrifices still being made in the temple?   Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:04 pm

After Yeshua? After the resurection?

This was brought up and some questions.

Quote :
Have you considered why James and the Elders wanted Paul to pay the expenses of the 4 nazarites. When they themselves did not participate.
My response:

I don't see where this is a conflict. Some even believe that James had
taken a life long vow of a Nazarite, thus backing up one of his titles
as James the Just, thus he could not do this with Paul as he could not
break his life long vow.

It is clear that them having four men proves that they were

  1. 1. Jews
  2. 2. Believers.
It was to show the non believing Jews that Paul was not going against
Torah nor teaching fellow Jews to do so. If others went along, it would
mean that they were also under the vow and maybe none others were. In
Acts 18:18 it speaks of Paul having his hair cut after his vow. He
still apparently had to go to Jerusalem to make the sacrifices, and
that is probably why James asked him to go with the four men. He still
needed to mikvah and make the sacrifices, so this was a good way for
him to 'prove' his keeping torah and being faithful to it.

Quote :
The participation of Paul in Temple offerings for the 4 nazarites votees is a special case.
What we were discussing I believe was if the Messianic believers were still
making sacrifices after the ascension of Yeshua and those verses, and
there are more, really do prove that they were.

Quote :
Why did they send Paul to the Gentiles yet he was not acceptablr to send to the Jews.

AFA Paul being sent as the apostle to the gentiles, in romans paul declares himself the apostle to the gentiles,in Tim, 1&2 he says he is a teacher (Rabbi?) to the gentiles. I don't believe that he was an appointed one from the Jerusalem council, but rather by Yeshua himself. He also went first in every city to the synagogue, and then sometimes the gentiles came and asked to hear more, there were also gentiles allowed in the synagogues then and heard as well.

Quote :
They could have said you pay for two and we'll pay for two. At that

time the believing community held everything in common, shared the

wealth so to speak. And Paul was clearly an outsider..
I'm not sure what you mean by 'outsider'?


Last edited by on Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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MMkgc

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PostSubject: More Questions   Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:50 am

Quote :
To the Messianic community in Jerusalem Saul /Paul was an outsider.
He spent most of his time trying to destroy the easrly church in
Jerusalem and was on his way to Damascus to do the same thing when he
was converted.
He was not of the original 12 , no this is true, but after his 'conversion' he was part of the fold. Peter and James both accepted him, giving him the 'right hand of fellowship'.

The greatest difference could be said to be that Peter studied under Rabbi Yeshua and Paul under Gamliel, while they were close in some ways, they were not in others, but even Paul went against Gamliel concerning the new believers, Gamliel said to leave them alone, if they were not of G-d they would soon fade away, but if they were they would be fighting heaven itself.

Quote :
There was an agreement as outlined in Gal 2 where Paul/ Saul was to preach to the uncircumcized (Gentiles) and Peter to the circumcized
(Jews) .


I don't see an agreement, Paul says, He that wrough effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mightlyl in me toward the gentiles. He, meaning Yeshua. Yet, Paul was not the one to first go to the gentiles, Peter was, Cornelius.


Quote :
There were "God fearing Gentiles in the synagogues every shabbat.
Both Peter and Paul preached in Anitoch to their respective groups.

Stephen the one Paul agreed and watched to be stoned, was the one who went to Antioch first, going only to the Jews, But others from Cyprus and Cyrene preached Yeshua to the Greeks. Barnabas too went to Antioch, and was the one who after this went and found Paul and brought him there. It was around this time that Herod had James killed.

In Chapter 13 of Acts we read that the Ruach is the one who spoke to the men when fasting that Barnabus and Saul ( note, Saul) should be set apart for work he had for them to do. When they went on their way, they went to Salamis and went to the synagogue to preach. Yet he parts company with Barnabus over Mark leaving for Jerusalem, I think it was more than that though.


Quote :
This division on how to incorporate Gentiles into Judaism still exists today.What is still misunderstood even to this day is that Yeshua came to
teach us to worship the true substance of God and not the shadow which
Judaism represents.
Ancient Judaism represented what HaShem handed down to Moshe. Today this vision is mared from all sides, Judaism, Christianity and even Messianic Judaism. What is foreign and pagan should be separated out, to find the fullness of truth, the purity of what Yeshua came to declare.



Quote :
James the Just. I guess if you really want to be righteous you have to take a Nazirite vow.However Yeshua taught us not to take any vows.

There is nothing wrong with taking a life long vow to not drink from the fruit of the vine, is there?

Yeshua did not tell us not to take vows, and this vow is the only one mentioned in the Torah. What I think you are referring to is that he told us to not take an oath, which is quite different.

Herod took an oath and John lost his head.

Yeshua told us not to swear, by heaven , or anything in it, for that is where G-ds throne is, or earth because that is his footstool, , or even Yerushalyim, for that is the city of the great King, or even your own head, but let your yes be yes, and your no, no, anything else lead to evil things.

I do not know of anywhere that he tells us to not take a vow, a Nazarite vow. Please back up with scripture.
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MMkgc

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PostSubject: Re: Sacrifices still being made in the temple?   Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:01 pm

The original catylist for this discussion was wiether or not there were sacrifices being done in the temple by the Jewish believers.

I would like to offer some scriptures to back this up.

First in the Acts of the Apostles we see

Quote :


Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers .... 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple,

It was proper and orthodox to go three times to the temple to pray, also to make offerings if you choose to.
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